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    <title property="dct:title">Green Pill Podcast 156: Summer of Protocols and Intertwingler</title>
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        <p><a href="https://youtu.be/mpmsq0G4EPE" rel="dct:references">The video version</a> of the discussion. <a href="https://sites.libsyn.com/400481/156-summer-of-protocols-retrofitting-the-web-with-dorian-taylor" rel="dct:references">See also audio-only</a>.</p>
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    <p>This was a sort of a whirlwind discussion, and the first podcast I've been on in over a year. Almost immediately after, I went and <a href="https://intertwingler.net/" rel="dct:references">wrote a one-pager about Intertwingler</a> so I'm more organized next time. Below are the notes to references I make during the podcast; note the timestamps are almost certainly wrong because I did them based on the raw audio from my end. If anybody wants to fix them for me, I'd be grateful.</p>
    <ul>
      <li>00:00 <a href="https://summerofprotocols.com/" rel="dct:references">https://summerofprotocols.com/</a> (of course)</li>
      <li>03:21 The definitive moment of UX subsuming other fields <a href="https://vimeo.com/4304573" rel="dct:references">happened in 2009</a></li>
      <li>04:34 <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Dream-Machine-M-Mitchell-Waldrop/dp/1732265119" rel="dct:references">The Dream Machine</a> by M. Mitchell Waldrop (on <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JCR_Licklider" rel="dct:references">JCR Licklider</a>)</li>
      <li>05:25 for more about cybernetics read <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Human-Use-Beings-Cybernetics-Society/dp/0306803208" rel="dct:references">The Human Use of Human Beings</a> by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norbert_Wiener" rel="dct:references">Norbert Wiener</a> (much shorter and more accessible than his book actually called <i>Cybernetics</i>);
      <ul>
        <li>there is also a recent limited-run podcast on <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Cybersyn" rel="dct:references">Project Cybersyn</a> (the utterly bananas attempt to organize an automated socialist economy in Chile using cybernetics that resulted in a US-backed coup and decades of military junta rule) by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeny_Morozov" rel="dct:references">Evgeny Morozov</a> called <a href="https://the-santiago-boys.com/" rel="dct:references">The Santiago Boys</a></li>
        <li>see also <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_systems_theory" rel="dct:references">General Systems Theory</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operations_research" rel="dct:references">operations research</a> etc</li>
      </ul>
      </li>
      <li>07:23 <a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1491911689/" rel="dct:references">Information Architecture for the World-Wide Web</a> (aka the Polar Bear Book by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Rosenfeld" rel="dct:references">Lou Rosenfeld</a>, <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Morville" rel="dct:references">Peter Morville</a>, and now with <a href="https://jarango.com/" rel="dct:references">Jorge Arango</a>)</li>
      <li>07:45 first mention of <a href="https://intertwingler.net/" rel="dct:references">Intertwingler</a></li>
      <li>08:45 <a href="https://roy.gbiv.com/" rel="dct:references">Roy Fielding's</a> dissertation, <a href="https://ics.uci.edu/~fielding/pubs/dissertation/top.htm" rel="dct:references">Architectural Styles and the Design of Network-Based Software Architectures</a>, colloquially known as the REST paper</li>
      <li>09:00 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee" rel="dct:references">Tim Berners-Lee</a> on durable URIs: <a href="https://www.w3.org/Provider/Style/URI.html" rel="dct:references">Cool URIs Don't Change</a> (1998)</li>
      <li>09:19 (where I wrote this remark down about URLs being cheap to change but expensive to change where they're referenced, was my protocol essay, which the general public is going to have to wait for.)</li>
      <li>18:02 <a href="summer-of-protocols/technical-note/5" rel="dct:references">five constituencies</a>:
      <ul>
        <li>end users of Intertwingler-driven websites/apps</li>
        <li>people who instantiate a canned Intertwingler site/app on their own systems</li>
        <li>people who make websites/web apps with Intertwingler (the initial target audience)</li>
        <li>people who extend Intertwingler by writing handlers and transforms (see <a href="https://github.com/doriantaylor/rb-intertwingler/" rel="dct:references">GitHub project README</a> and/or <a href="summer-of-protocols/architectural-principles" rel="dct:references">architectural principles</a> document)</li>
        <li>people who port Intertwingler to other programming languages</li>
      </ul>
      </li>
      <li>19:55 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_Camp" rel="dct:references">Foo Camp</a> was an <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Reilly_Media" rel="dct:references">O'Reilly</a> thing back in the day</li>
      <li>22:46 it was <a href="https://youtube.com/live/MUfqF_3fghE" rel="dct:references">Cory Levinson</a> talking about using RDF to model climate protocols
      <ul>
        <li>(RDF is <a href="https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-primer/" rel="dct:references">Resource Description Framework</a> which can be understood as a syntax-independent way to represent graph-structured data where the nodes <i>and</i> edges are URIs)</li>
      </ul>
      </li>
      <li>23:12 DIDs stand for <a href="https://www.w3.org/TR/did-core/" rel="dct:references"><i>decentralized</i> identifier</a> (I said "distributed") but they are effectively URIs that resolve by other means and drop-in replaceable in RDF</li>
      <li>24:27 (an <a href="https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/data-center/h100/" rel="dct:references">H100</a> is, at the time of this recording, NVidia's flagship AI processor that costs a hojillion dollars)</li>
      <li>24:49 <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5-lcvKfBM" rel="dct:references">the video</a> that is the companion to my protocol essay</li>
      <li>25:08 <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju9DewoTyx4" rel="dct:references">Gordon Brander</a> doing <a href="http://subconscious.substack.com/">Noosphere/Subconscious</a></li>
      <li>29:43 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertwingularity" rel="dct:references">Intertwingularity</a> coined by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Nelson" rel="dct:references">Ted Nelson</a> (Peter Morville of Polar Bear Book infamy also <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Intertwingled-Information-Everything-Peter-Morville/dp/0692225587" rel="dct:references">wrote a book about it</a>)
      <ul>
        <li>for more about <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Xanadu" rel="dct:references">Xanadu</a> read <a href="https://www.wired.com/1995/06/xanadu/" rel="dct:references">The Curse of Xanadu</a> (Gary Wolf for Wired, June 1995)</li>
      </ul>
      </li>
      <li>30:20 a classic essay on data pollution is <a href="https://pluralistic.net/" rel="dct:references">Cory Doctorow's</a> <a href="https://people.well.com/user/doctorow/metacrap.htm" rel="dct:references">Metacrap</a></li>
      <li>35:28 <a href="https://www.amazon.com/G%C3%B6del-Escher-Bach-Eternal-Golden/dp/0465026567" rel="dct:references">G&#xF6;del Escher Bach</a> by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Hofstadter" rel="dct:references">Doug Hofstadter</a> (a classic)
      <ul>
        <li>(I would argue the book is about <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isomorphism" rel="dct:references">isomorphisms</a> which can be understood as pairs of structure-preserving transformations of the form <code>f(x) = g(y)</code>)</li>
        <li>(one thing I didn't say but should have was the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_theseus" rel="dct:references">Ship of Theseus</a> phenomenon)</li>
      </ul>
      </li>
      <li>36:25 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinton_Cerf" rel="dct:references">Vint Cerf</a> on <a href="https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31450389" rel="dct:references">"Digital Dark Age"</a></li>
      <li>38:15 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_kay" rel="dct:references">Alan Kay's</a> <a href="http://worrydream.com/refs/Kay%20-%20Powerful%20Ideas%20Need%20Love%20Too.html" rel="dct:references">original remarks</a> about stories/arguments/system dynamics are on <a href="http://worrydream.com/" rel="dct:references">Bret Victor's site</a></li>
      <li>39:46 <a href="https://quoteinvestigator.com/2019/02/27/tell/" rel="dct:references">"Tell me and I may forget&#x2026;"</a></li>
      <li>40:20 (<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5-lcvKfBM" rel="dct:references">the video</a> again)</li>
      <li>40:58 Cicero's De Oratore (<a href="https://www.amazon.com/Cicero-Ideal-Orator-Marcus-Tullius/dp/0195091981" rel="dct:references">May/Wisse translation</a>) is actually a hell of a read. Genuinely funny and totally accessible.</li>
      <li>44:01 <a href="the-hundred-year-infrastructure" rel="dct:references" title="The Hundred-Year Infrastructure">The Hundred-Year Infrastructure</a></li>
      <li>46:20 Venkat's <a href="https://studio.ribbonfarm.com/p/too-big-to-nail" rel="dct:references">Too Big to Nail</a></li>
      <li>49:30 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_source_of_truth" rel="dct:references">Single Source of Truth</a></li>
      <li>51:34 <a href="elswhere" rel="dct:references">contact information</a>
      <ul>
        <li><a href="./" rel="dct:references" title="Make Things. Make Sense.">doriantaylor.com</a>
        <ul>
          <li><a href="summer-of-protocols" rel="dct:references">Summer of Protocols sitelet</a></li>
          <li><a href="https://efdn.notion.site/Retrofitting-the-Web-Dorian-Taylor-f1669086ef40411cb8db1e136f7bef83" rel="dct:references">SoP Notion site</a></li>
        </ul>
        </li>
        <li><a href="https://warpcast.com/dorian" rel="dct:references">Me on Farcaster</a></li>
        <li><a href="https://mastodon.social/@doriantaylor" rel="dct:references">Me on Mastodon</a></li>
        <li><a href="https://bsky.app/profile/doriantaylor.com" rel="dct:references">Me on BlueSky</a></li>
        <li><a href="https://github.com/doriantaylor" rel="dct:references">Me on GitHub</a></li>
        <li><a href="https://twitter.com/doriantaylor" rel="dct:references">Me on X Dot Com&#x2122;</a> (moribund, lol, better to check <a href="https://linkedin.com/in/doriantaylor" rel="dct:references">my linkedin</a> tbh)</li>
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